RE: Camry will run with Monte SS
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RE: Camry will run with Monte SS - 12/18/2006 11:45:20 PM
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vipermann114
Posts: 127
Joined: 12/5/2006
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of course it might sound right but dont get all high hopes aobout one magazine. Yes of course it happened (soo the magazine says) but i mean it depends on alotta of things and i wouldnt put high hopes on just one remark saying it can in doubt run with a monte carlo ss. All im trying to say here give me some various facts and avergae them togasther thats the only way your proving it to me in my eyes!!!
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RE: Camry will run with Monte SS - 12/19/2006 8:33:56 AM
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06MonteSS
Posts: 299
Joined: 11/9/2005
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I don't believe most Mag's numbers... first, GM's site even states the SS 0-60 is 5.6 seconds... which I think is conservative, since I've done it in about 5.2... and with my CAI and now a tune, I'm sure it's faster than that, cuz it sure launches/responds quicker, pulls harder/accels faster, etc etc...
and second, it all depends on who was driving and how... I've seen some of these magazine road testers on the Speed channel with new cars, and they aren't the most aggressive guys driving - yeah they cruise around at a pretty good clip, and show you acceleration and braking, but I haven't seen them do an all-out launch from a standstill...
< Message edited by 06MonteSS -- 12/20/2006 11:04:23 AM >
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2006 Monte Carlo SS Loaded, CAI, Diablosport Tuned, >> PICS <<
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RE: Camry will run with Monte SS - 12/19/2006 10:12:11 PM
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MadelynsDaddy
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I think we're finally getting to the meat of the issue here. The fact is, even if the same driver tests the same car on the same track on the same day with the same conditions, there will be variance. Certainly, this is why you make several passes and average the results. Now, when you're testing two different cars, even under the same conditions, there is the opportunity for bias. Studies have shown that even unconscious biases have real effects on the results obtained by any given researcher. This is why the gold standard in medicine is the double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial. Without getting too deeply into it, the point is that even if there is no intentional tampering with test results (and I wouldn't go so far as to say there isn't), the testers can't help themselves. Any bias that exists in their minds, based on previous experience, marketing, or any other factor, will show up in their results.
Now, most of these reviewers have been comparing cars for some time. If the reviewer in question has driven a great many truly pitiful American cars and has observed over time that Japanese cars have often been better built, more efficient and more reliable, he will have an inherent bias favoring Japanese products. I don't think any of us will dispute that there was at least a fifteen year period during which American automotive quality was, shall we say, less than stellar (remember some of the dogs from the late seventies and eighties?) Most of the critics reviewing our cars cut their teeth tearing up the fodder offered up by Detroit. We should not be surprised by the bias inherent in their findings.
On a lighter note, if anyone out there has access to one of the new Camrys and would like to line up against Madelyn, I'll be your huckleberry.
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Madelyn is my baby- Jet Black 2002 SS, Bridgestone Turanza LS-H tires, K&N CAI, ZZP U-bend delete
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RE: Camry will run with Monte SS - 12/20/2006 5:48:43 AM
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04 Intimidator
Posts: 3798
Joined: 10/10/2006
From: North Fond du Lac, WI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wiz kidd
well i guess there's only one way to solve this ..... :)
That's what I'm talking about it! =D
As far as MadelynsDaddy's info it is pretty much on the money. There can also be another concern as the auto companies might be sending "special" cars to reviewers to test where others are testing the cars right off the lot.
In the computer sector there was a problem with this and a website www.tomshardware.com basically blew the whistle on it. Manufacturers were designing video card drivers to work specifically for benchmark testing software. They would send a card and this special driver software in and clean house. Back in the late 90's there was a company call 3DFX that made these incredible video cards, but PC World magazine reported that the 3DFX card (the Voodoo 2) ran neck and neck around 60 Frames per second on the standard Winbench benchmarking software with an Intel card. When playing Quake the Intel card was incredibly choppy and simply sucked at around 12 fps when the voodoo was pulling away at 45 fps almost and incredible 4 times faster. Well how can this be? It was discovered that Intel had sent the card with drivers specifically geared to this benchmark and that the standard drivers didn't nearly hold up. Later other companies were discovered doing the same thing like ATI and Matrox.
So back to this point, Toyota among other car companies might be sending cars that have ported engines and exhaust, closer tolerances in the transmission and engine. Their retail car then will not have this degree of manufactring.
Realistically there is no way that 2 production cars could very 0.7 seconds in a 0-60 launch unless one of them was ready to fall apart. Maybe in the quarter mile, but not in 0-60 and being around 6 seconds. This would equate to 2 production geo metros running the quarter and one being 3 seconds faster. Just not going to happen.
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