RE: Is nitrous safe???
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RE: Is nitrous safe??? - 6/27/2008 10:54:01 AM
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Cowboy6622
Posts: 2962
Joined: 6/6/2007
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you for got to put a bracket on the front of yoru signature
yours says this
IMG]link[/IMG]
needs to be like this
[IMG]link[/IMG]
Also, it seems like when I made mine, it woudl only work if i typed out the word image instead of the IMG
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"Ye thou I drive thru the valley and the shadow of rice, I will fear no turbo, for thy 3800 V6 art wit me, thy horsepower and thy torque, thou comfort me."
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RE: Is nitrous safe??? - 6/27/2008 12:11:41 PM
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bumpin96monte
Posts: 231
Joined: 2/2/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cowboy6622
heres the thing about nitrous oxide... it burns MUCH hotter than gasoline.
Nitrous oxide itself doesn''t burn- you have to add gasoline to the oxygen you''re adding to burn- just like if you added more air via a supercharger or turbo. Sure cylinder temps are higher- but they''re higher because you''re adding more fuel- so you have more energy present at the time of combustion- it would be no different than if you added that extra air in the form of boost. Plus, your intake temps are significantly lower due to the liquid nitrous changing to a gas state.
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the o-rings on the pistons, you could burn hte top of the pistons off, the valves (they''''ll actually harden and crystalize if you use it too much), and the block itself if you run it too long.
Pistons don''t have orings. I''ve also never heard of anyone burning the top of a piston off. Do you have any proof of any of this stuff ever happening on a small shot like this on a 3800?
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nitrous is only safe to use for a few seconds..
I don''t think he''s planning on doing top speed runs with it- for a 13-16 second 1/4 mile blast, its perfectly fine.
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im only running a 5 pound bottle. i have a ten in my garage but i think that will be two much
Too much of what? You realize the size of the bottle only dictates storage capacity and not shot size right? You could put 3 15 lb bottles in the trunk and still run a 35 shot if you wanted. Shot size is controlled by nitrous flow, which is regulated by a small orfice you put before your nozzle (called a jet usually). IMO it sucks running out of nitrous- and even a nearly empty bottle is a pain. If you have a 10 lb bottle- run that- I''d run the biggest bottle you can get, the actual weight and size isn''t that big of a deal.
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Does anyone know where i could buy a nitrous kit like this with a 5 pound bottle and a double purge system??? Thanks
Double purge system? I wouldn''t be so worried about getting a purge setup, as I would with getting other safety features first. Honestly- on a nearly stock setup, I''d almost rather not run a purge. Sure your shot will start out a little weak (because you have some nitrous gas before the liquid hits), but it allows for a little more progressive of a hit, instead of nailing the full brunt off the bat. It will definitely be easier on your tranny without one.
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i''''d think you wouldn''''t want to put temporary horsepower that 99 times out of 100 causes problems.
99/100- please show some actual statistics to back that up. There are tons and tons of people that run nitrous problem free. I would also reccomend not spreading misinformation such as this- because I can garauntee you that this is nowhere near correct, and I question some of your other comments as well.
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it seems to me like a push button would be better than throttle activated... everytime yo uaccidently push the throttle so far you''''d activate your nitrous...
You''ve never actually seen or installed a nitrous setup have you? You don''t run only a throttle switch- you put an activation toggle switch inline. So you have to turn the bottle on, flip the switch- and only then will it work. Kinda seems common sense that you wouldn''t be driving around spraying all time you hit WOT.
The push button is retarded because there is so much more possibility for error. Think about that for a second- you''re going down the track- push the button at the top of first and hold it all the way down the track- you absolutely have to remember to let off the button BEFORE you let off the gas pedal. If you do that in reverse order, you''ll probably destroy the engine.
With a throttle switch- you roll into the gas out of the hole- hit WOT towards the top of first- and it begins spraying. At the end of the strip, you let off the gas and the nitrous stops spraying automatically- you don''t need to do anything.
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just a few mods :)
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RE: Is nitrous safe??? - 6/27/2008 2:47:30 PM
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Cowboy6622
Posts: 2962
Joined: 6/6/2007
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pistons don''t have rings? who the hell taught you about cars? theres a ring around that piston that keeps the oil from getting into the combustion.... running the engine hotter is bad for that ring.
if you don''t beleivee, burn up your car... not my money.
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"Ye thou I drive thru the valley and the shadow of rice, I will fear no turbo, for thy 3800 V6 art wit me, thy horsepower and thy torque, thou comfort me."
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RE: Is nitrous safe??? - 6/27/2008 3:04:47 PM
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scc24540
Posts: 2375
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: wouldnt u like to know
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i think by "o rings" hes thinking a smal rubber ring. the oil control and compression rings on a piston are totally different. so lets keep it civil guys
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RE: Is nitrous safe??? - 6/27/2008 11:28:33 PM
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bumpin96monte
Posts: 231
Joined: 2/2/2008
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quote:
the o-rings on the pistons
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cowboy6622
pistons don''''''''t have rings? who the hell taught you about cars?
Pistons do have PISTON RINGS. Who the hell taught me about cars? I did- I rebuilt my own 3800 from the ground up and it runs just fine- does that sound like enough experience for you?
Let me give you a little lesson since you want to chew me out even though you are the one who either doesn''''t know what he''''s talking about, or cannot speak correctly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-ring
The first line says "An o-ring is a loop of elastomer with a round (o-shaped) cross-section used as a mechanical seal".
(FYI an elastomer is an elastic polymer- rubber/plastic). First off, piston rings are not made out of polymers- they are typically cast iron or steel. Secondly, piston rings are definitely not O shaped in cross section- they are typically a polygon similarly shaped to a rectangle. So I hate to break it to you- but a piston ring is not an o-ring.
See picture: (note, not a single one has a O shaped cross section)
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theres a ring around that piston that keeps the oil from getting into the combustion.... running the engine hotter is bad for that ring.
Secondly, this part is even pretty much BS as well. On a 3800 (and 60* V6s too from what I remember)- there are 3 rings, two compression rings up top- and one oil control ring at the bottom. If you''''re running excesss combustion chamber temperatures- you''''re not going to do anything to the oil control ring at all.
The top two rings will go long before the oil control ring would ever have an issue. The top rings have a gap that closes with the more heat you put into them- once you run out of gap and the ring ends butt together- that is usually when you have a ring or piston land failure. I don''''t ever see a case where the oil control ring (what you are talking about) would fail before the other two rings let loose and tore up the engine.
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if you don''''''''t beleivee, burn up your car... not my money.
I normally try and stay out of stuff like this- but I really don''''t like it when people try and give information about stuff that they have no clue about (especially when it is wrong). It is obvious that you have never installed nitrous or have nitrous on your own car, and also that your understanding of how nitrous works and how it effects the engine is a little weak.
What I mean:
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heres the thing about nitrous oxide... it burns MUCH hotter than gasoline
nitrous by itself does not burn- you have to add the matching amount of fuel to maintain your desired air/fuel ratio- so this makes no sense at all if you understand how nitrous works
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you could burn hte top of the pistons off
Please show any evidence of someone burning the top of a piston off with a 200 hp shot or less of nitrous due to the nitrous and not to a maintenance problem (ie clogged fuel filter, etc). I assume you mean melt the piston top- but with the proper air/fuel ratio, this is practically impossible.
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the valves (they''''''''ll actually harden and crystalize if you use it too much),
How do you figure it hardens the valves? I don''''t think the valves get hot enough to change phases. Also- what do you mean by crystalize? What does a crystalizing valve even look like?
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and the block itself if you run it too long
This doesn''''t make a bit of sense either- how can you burn the block up from using nitrous? The only part of the block in contact with the combustion chamber are the cylinder walls- and I hate to break it to you, but if you are making enough heat to melt through cast iron cylinder walls- your aluminum pistons are probably already liquid and floating in your oil pan.
The melting point of straight cast iron is like 1200*C, and the melting point of raw aluminum is like 600*C. Even with a high alloy aluminum- there is no way you could burn/melt the cylinder wall before piston turned to liquid.
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your water temperature gauge won''''''''t register as hot as teh engine is actually getting either
As it does any other time- it reads the temperature of the coolant- not of the engine. So if you were to add a bunch of heat to the engine through the combustion chamber (WOT passes on nitrous, s/c, n/a whatever)- you have to wait until the coolant absorbs enough heat from the hotter cylinder heads and block to change temperature before you notice a change on your gauge. I don''''t see how this has anything to do with nitrous.
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i''''''''d think you wouldn''''''''t want to put temporary horsepower that 99 times out of 100 causes problems.
Seriously- that is the dumbest thing I''''ve ever heard. I garauntee you that you cannot back that claim up at all. I doubt you could even find a claim that 50%, or 25% of nitrous engines fail. This is beyond dumb.
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everytime yo uaccidently push the throttle so far you''''''''d activate your nitrous
ROFL, I was hoping you weren''''t serious about that. Even if you were dumb enough to hook a throttle activation switch up by itself- who would be driving around 24/7 with the bottle open? Seriously- if you took the 30 seconds to read through the installation manual that comes with the throttle switch, you''''d realize you''''re supposed to hook another switch inline.
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if you don''''''''t beleivee, burn up your car... not my money.
Is that because 99% of nitrous fed engines fail? Seriously man...
I''''m not trying to be rude about this stuff- but honestly man- if you have no clue what you''''re talking about, then don''''t post. Its hard enough for a newbie to make decisions (I was there once)- but people like you make it 10x harder posting false and misinformation.
Also, if someone proves what you say is completely BS- you really shouldn''''t take offense and jump down their throat. I realize this is just the internet and you can be an e-thug all you want, but you had to figure someone would call you out for posting all of this misinformation in one thread.
< Message edited by bumpin96monte -- 6/27/2008 11:35:39 PM >
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RE: Is nitrous safe??? - 6/28/2008 12:08:25 AM
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TrickRacin
Posts: 166
Joined: 5/12/2006
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Nitrous can be a very good power adder but you have to be on top of your car. Ya need to know the ins and outs of installing and know what to read with how it is running along with how to read plugs and knock if you get too much spray. Having a dyno tune tto your specific set up wouldn''t be an all bad idea. Depending on the size of the shot depends on the amount of timing you have to put in it. For zust a straight foward kit I would honestly recomend a zex kit due to the way it controls the flows of fuel and nitrous to make sure they stay the same with the proper A/F ratios.
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RE: Is nitrous safe??? - 6/28/2008 6:44:17 AM
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mickey
Posts: 4804
Joined: 4/23/2005
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ok folks we have let this go on enough with out any interferance. if it keeps up like this it wil get locked down.
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RE: Is nitrous safe??? - 6/28/2008 7:15:45 AM
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mickey
Posts: 4804
Joined: 4/23/2005
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here is a shot for you.
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1415/dscn5344eo8vi2.jpg
now do i think this is the way it will always turn out? NO!
but i have seen the pistons melted to the inside of the block, i have also see the cranks broke. I have defently see the heads come off the motor and also i have personally shot a piston threw the hood of one of my cars.
But you have to also understand when i personally did it it was on my bracket car not my daily driver.
this goes back to what i said in the git go. i would not recommend it on a daily driven car.
Also it is not legal to run on the road with a operable system on the city streets.
AS for experience i have been in or around cars since i was a kid. and i am no longer that so i guess after the years of being under a hood of a car i can tell you IN MY BEST OPINION i dont think it is worth it on a daily driven car that you need to go to work and or school with.
you can also do a search on the inter net on googel for the dangers of nitrous and it will come up with tons of info on it. the photo above is from a Honda board.
I have seen similar results in 350 Chevy''''s and also fords and even hemi motors
SO i dont think it is bias to one brand motor .
if you want it on your car then do it . it is not our car to say one way or the other. but from what i have read here it seems to me that you have your mind set on it and this is what you would like to do. then go for it. as for where to buy a kit you can get them from summit or jegs or several other speed shops in the country. Some are better then others.
the best thing you can do for you or your car is to make sure you read up on it and know the dangers of the system and the nos. that your pumping in to the car SO that your educated on it and not just blindly doing it. So you can chose the right system for your car and your needs.
I would not ever trust what you read on a bord UNLESS you know that person and trust them.
and know for sure that pearson knows what they are talkign about for damed sure and can back it up some how with proven results
SO to answer your org. question .
"IS nitrous safe?"
NO, but it can be! it can also be real bad for you if you are not educated enough to know how to use it , or willing to learn how to do it so it is not damageign to your motor.
< Message edited by mickey -- 6/28/2008 7:20:48 AM >
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RE: Is nitrous safe??? - 6/28/2008 2:07:49 PM
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bumpin96monte
Posts: 231
Joined: 2/2/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mickey
here is a shot for you.
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1415/dscn5344eo8vi2.jpg
now do i think this is the way it will always turn out? NO!
but i have seen the pistons melted to the inside of the block, i have also see the cranks broke. I have defently see the heads come off the motor and also i have personally shot a piston threw the hood of one of my cars.
I wasn''t trying to elude to the fact that it was impossible to blow an engine with nitrous- just more to the fact that if you get the proper safety add ons, and you keep tabs on your engine- that a little baby 50-75 shot is going to be far from a 99% failure rate- especially if he is using it for strip use only as he said.
I can find plenty of pictures of destroyed turbo, supercharged, and NA engines as well- it all comes back to the fact that if you want to race your car, regardless what aspiration it is, that you should know and understand how it works and what the possible dangers are.
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NO, but it can be! it can also be real bad for you if you are not educated enough to know how to use it , or willing to learn how to do it so it is not damageign to your motor.
Exactly- I think there are practically equal dangers to doing an L67 top swap as well- there are pictures all over clubgp of chipped pistons from people not doing what you said.
The only reason I''m really reccomending this over something like a top swap (since it would be about the same price either way)- is that there is so much less to go wrong in the install process- and the fact that the car behaves just as stock 99.9% of the time- except for the occasion where he wants to take it to the strip and put the bottle in. A top swap would effect daily drivability as well as gas mileage- both things that nitrous wouldn''t effect.
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